Put meat and water into a saucepan. bring to a boil, then simmer, covered, until the meat is very tender, about 2-3 hours. Drain the meat, and when it is cool enough to handle, chop it very, very finely. If you have a food processor, whirl the meat and apples together until the meat is further pulverised and the apples are coarsely chopped - I just chop them by hand.

Put the meat and apples in a large pan; add everything else. bring to a boil, then simmer, covered, for one hour, adding more cider or stout to keep the mixture from sticking and burning (it varies from year to year).

Put the mixture in a bowl and, when cool, cover with cling film and store in the refrigerator. every day for 5-7 days, take the thing out and mix well, adding a shot of brandy. You can keep it as long as you stir it every day for up to two weeks. This will fill two 9-inch pies or a whole bunch of those little English tarty pies they like.